"Umar Vadillo", CEO of Kelantan Gold Traders claimed in here below:
Unlike paper money it does not require to be backed up by any legal authority, nor does it seek to be backed. Its value, unlike paper money, does not depend on legal compulsion but freedom.Husam denied the Gold Dinar was to replace the Malaysian Ringgit as local currency but they are building up the base to do so. And now this comment.
Tell us for certain, is it to replace Ringgit or not? With a clear answer, Bank Negara Malaysia can go about to do their job.
This blogger is all for the Gold Dinar. But an affirmative NO when it comes to breaking the law, creating disorder in the economy, and putting into disarray the status of Malaysia as a sovereign nation.
Work for that change peacefully and orderly.
Until such time, the country is broken into 13 separate states or some other neo-colonial power invades it, Malaysia is an independent sovereign state.
She has the right to self govern, apply it's own fiscal and economic policies, institute law and order, and so on and so forth what any free nation would do. The soverignty of Malaysia lies with the Raja-Raja Melayu.
Asean or any regional grouping here has yet to set a common market and common economic policy like the European Union, in which each country converts it's currency to a common regional currency, ECU.
That could be the fashionable way forward if it proves successful. It means the way forward is a common medium of exchange, unit of value and storage of value. Gold dinar is along that idea.
Again, there is no such agenda on the platter of Asean or any other local regional groupings. Until gold becomes currency, the ringgit is the currency reflecting the nation's sovereignty to govern it's own monetary policy.
The power to issue the sovereign currency or that evil paper money lies under the authority of Bank Negara Malaysia. Read this extract of the Central Bank of Malaysia Act (CBMA) 2009 (Part VIII – Currency):
Unit of currency:There is no two way about it. To quote Rocky Bru:
61. (1) The unit of currency in Malaysia shall be the ringgit, which shall be divided into one hundred sen.
(2) The abbreviated form of the ringgit shall be “RM” or “MYR”.
Right to issue, print or mint currency:
62. (1) The Central Bank shall be the sole authority to issue currency notes and coins in Malaysia and such notes and coins shall only be printed or minted by or under the authority of the Bank.
(2) The Government, any State government, public authority, financial institution, other institution or person shall not issue, print, mint or authorise the printing or minting of currency or any document or token payable to bearer on demand being documental tokens, which in the opinion of the Bank, are likely to pass as legal tender.
63. Only currency notes and coins issued by the Central Bank shall be legal tender in Malaysia.
That’s about as clear as you can get legalese to be. Since the Kelantan government is issuing these coins as payment for use in trade and in payment of civil service wages, they are already in violation of Sections 62 (1) and (2), as the dinar and dirham are obviously intended for use as “legal tender”.Look at the other side of the coin, a gold dinar coin for that matter, by having gold dinar by-pass our monetary system, it weakens Bank Negara to monitor the money or currency in circulation and the needed money supply figures M1, M2 and M3.
Unless Bank Negara Malaysia has authorised the Kelantan Gold Trade to issue coins on its behalf, then we’re going to see an early test of the CBMA 2009.
Most of central banks monetary policy instrument are towards controlling money supply to control interest rate, inflation, availability of credit, and so on so forth. Money demand is more difficult to control because it is dependent on Banks, economy vibrancy, company and sectoral needs, Government fiscal policy and so forth.
This means Government and it's agent will not be able to manage, monitor and control the economy within the current existing legal structure and system.
At it's worst senario, this could lead to chaos in the financial system, deem the monetary policies ineffective in controlling money supply and systemic problems. In other words, it leads to economic chaos.
Taking a slight theological detour, there is a Quranic saying that those who create chaos or disorder in this world is condemned by Allah. Will it apply here?
The interpretation of those words with regard to the Gold Dinar will be best assigned to the learned.
As for as this blogger's consumption, there are other ways - diplomacy or parliamentary process or organic gradual change - to bring about this change, but not by breaking the law and causing chaos and disorder.
Returning back to the issue, there is also another law called the Exchange Control Act, 1953 (Act 17) to contend with.
Unless there is or are amendment/(s) to the June 1991 copy in this blogger's possesion, it is cyrstal clear in words stated that Bank Negara is empowered to control the dealing, surrender and bailees of gold. Only Bank Negara authorised dealer can buy, borrow, sell, and lend gold to any other persons in or outside the country.
Gold is defined as "gold coin and bullion and includes any gold in whatever state or form other than gold which has been materially increased in value by skilled craftmanship."
Umar Vadillo is the expert and CEO, thus he should know better and be legally informed. Unless Kelantan Gold Trades Sdn Bhd operates as a jewellery shop, his gold coin comes under the jurisdiction of Bank Negara.
There is no two and three ways about it, there must be authorisation from Bank Negara. The Maple leaves and Krugerrands are sold by Bank Negara-authorised Banks. Bank Negara too had issued commemurative gold coins
The minting was done by that whatcamallit scandalous local minting company authorised by Bank Negara. (Scandalous? Ask Zeti, a Minister, Senator Deputy Minister and one ex Banker.) The company only do pressing of gold blanks that are controlled and kept by Bank Negara. Down to the security of the whole facility was managed by Bank Negara.
My English is not good and at times atrocious, but Umar Vadillo's statement that "it does not require to be backed up by any legal authority, nor does it seek to be backed" does not seemed right.
Seriously, in our pursuit to be purveyor of good things, start with respecting the law of the country you are in. Change can be brought about in a peaceful and orderly manner.
By defying the existing law and order, pursuing policy that could be detrimental to the economic interest of the nation, and cause economic chaos, that can be construed as sabotage done by "economic hitman." Malay Malil columnist, Rusdi Mustafa is short of describing it as an act of treason.
I want the Gold Dinar to thrive, but I also love the independence of sovereign Malaysia.
"The soverignty of Malaysia lies with the Raja-Raja Melayu...ABITW"
Exactly - that is true ABITW.
Don't you know that Raja-Raja Melayu had their coinage system?
Go to the museum dear ABITW.
kerajaan/kesultanan Kelantan had Kijang Emas
kerajaan/kesultanan Kedah had the gold kupang
kerajaan/kesultanan Johor had their own gold coins minted under their names.
All the coins are fractions or multiples of the dinars....and that is the basis of calculation for REAL ZAKAT .... 20 dinars or 85 grm kept for a lunar year then you should pay 1/2 dinar (2.5%)
(4.25 grm per dinar x 20 = 85 grm).
..and mind you ABITW, zakat is under the sultans. This is hal ehwal Islam. Maka zakat Dinar ialah hal keRAJAan/kesultanan.
That is Real Kedaulatan and NOT IMF and World Bank Based Soverignty.
Terima kasih ABITW. Akhirnya Tuan tunjukkan apakah politik dan kedaulatan yang sebenarnya ! Baik juga cerita dinar dari sibuk cerita pangkah memangkah melobi undi nak jadi raja peti undi.
Tanpa zakat yang benar maka tiadalah kedaulatan yang sebenar.
Why would I took the effort to put the Bank Negara logo which has the ancient Kijang emas coin as logo if I had not known what you said at length?
This is to reiterate that I am not against the idea and its introduction but how it is introduced.
Your argument indicate you are taking a "political" argument and arguing for the sake of arguing. You are taking bits and pieces that you like to hear and twist it to your predetermined conclusion.
To rebut your factual misinterpretation, it is too lengthy.
On that style of argument, I can claim that you are wrong to say the Ringgit has no sovereign status.
It is a legal tender under the laws passed by parliament. Any other currency has no soveriegn status in this country.
The ringgit was not borne out of IMF or World Bank existed before IMF (1944) and World Bank (1944) but by Act of Parliament and sovereign treaties.
It is our decision to follow the "conventional" currency issuance and it will be our decision too to determine gold dinar or gold backed ringgit as our currency.
Since you talk at length of Sultan's power and Islamic affair under their purview, may I ask if the Cap Mohor Besar Raja2 Melayu has issued a statement to proclaim the Sen and Ringgit is replaced by Gold Dinar?
Has there been any act of parliament to dissolve the existing laws on BNM and currency?
Unless there is any, gold dinar or any other more Islamic idea of money will be illegal.
Are you saying that to propagate Islam, it has to be confrontational, done with no respect for the law, and done instinctively by just about anyone who feels they are in such a mood to do so?
Gold Dinar does not change my Iman and thus, it does not need such urgency that a more peaceful and orderly change can be instituted.
Sure Raja Peti Undi .... ask yourself, are non Malay or non Islamic party excited with the prospect of Gold Dinar?
Gold Dinar idea still remain theoretical and has to be developed further to meet it's function as money and use in monetary policy instrument.
Go back to earlier posting to understand the weakness of Gold Dinar.
Great Good Voice,
You are making the dinar more exciting now.
By the way, I think I understand why Umar Vadillo said the dinar does not need/want to compete as a legal tender. The dinar does not need Karpal Singh to legalise the fact that 1 dinar is one gold coin of 4.25 grm of gold. That is the sunnah of money. Do you need Karpal Singh to legalise the dinar and the sunnah?
Gold is always gold. 4.25 grm of gold dust or gold coins are always equivalent to 1 dinar.(not Iraqi paper dinar of course). Printed notes need legal tender status. Dinar does not need that status. It is already a material. If you possess the dinars or gold, silver, rice, cows, goats etc it means you have absolute material gain.(that is REAL materialistic - and not paperilistic or digitalistic gain if there are such words). Since it is material gain, now check the haul and nisab for zakat purposes.
Again with due respect to the Government of Malaysia which is under the YMM YDP Agong, to get the dinars you need the ringgit.Isn't that good for the ringgit or the dollar and the economy for that matter? Will that not help to stabilise or even strenghthen the ringgit? It is like pegging to the gold without the word pegging. So who says the ringgit is not needed? Why not have an inflow of gold into Kelantan and by extension Malaysia?
China is doing it.
Since voluntarily a number of people want to use the dinars that they bought using the ringgit - for MASkahwin (not kertas kahwin), exchanging with goods or services, and of course the zakat then let it be. Why not? Use it but don't force it.
Thanks for the good voice, A Voice.
Sesuatu itu menjadi betul apabila ia diusahakan dengan betul. Matlamat tidak menghalalkan cara. Uruskanlah dengan betul mengikut peraturannya. Jangan diregangkan benang yang basah.
DD ... discipline department?
Your second comment is a better set of arguments presented. Hurrah for dinar. But you are still not addressing the issues raised.
On your question: Anybody forcing?
The Mullah have followers who are blind loyalist and fashionably force themselves on others by issuing strange edicts as though it came from God.
Husam flip flop and Umar vadillo said it outright. Admit DD you are breaking the law.
You have no legitimacy to bypass existing system and try to circumvent the law.
Thus far that is what your responses are.
My first posting talks of its impracticality and riba. Maybe when we have the number (not Parliamentary seats) b4 we can think of ways to overcome.
The second here talks of sovereignty, law and monetary policies.
Looks like you have not answered neither but just doing your pitching.
Beginning to sound like broken records ... opps CDs for someone following this subject for a while.
We haven't touched yet Islamic banking.
Common on answer me ... "Tell me something I don't already know" - Quoted from character Gordon Gecko in the movie Wall Street.
**DD ... discipline department?
interesting if we can get IMF to be disciplined..
**The Mullah have followers who are blind loyalist and fashionably force themselves on others by issuing strange edicts as though it came from God.**
do you feel forced by them?
you need a force to response to the so called force??
**Husam flip flop and Umar vadillo said it outright. Admit DD you are breaking the law.**
a few days ago, comments by NST was interesting -...so far no real voice from Putrajaya or Bank Negara..may be because there is no real issue (or not yet).
why not if you break IMF and World Bank's law or that of the Federal reserve? and mind you these are institutions for the laws of riba. They will tell you no to the gold and yes to paper money absolutely (well now the electronic signals money where their street banks will collect your zakat)..and on riba, Allah and His Rasul have declared war on riba.
**My first posting talks of its impracticality and riba. Maybe when we have the number (not Parliamentary seats) b4 we can think of ways to overcome.**
NST addressed this already - time will tell about the practicality of dinar.....and time and time again the ever collapsing paper money system will help it....and of course the passion of Umar and Co and us to promote and facilitate usage of DD (I think so far you are among the few bloggers who have interest to dwell on the DD)
**The second here talks of sovereignty, law and monetary policies.**
it is not sovereignty when your ringgit can be devalued at the game tables of Soros. Rupiah is also not supreme when General Suharto can be forced to sign the IMF agreement while the banker Camdessus was just standing folding hands. You can't even control the melting of ice like money....and it needs IMF and bankers laws and policies to sustain the melting....and Anwar has proved to be very friendly with this lot!
**Looks like you have not answered neither but just doing your pitching.**
answers are in your heart if you call for it.
**Beginning to sound like broken records ... opps CDs for someone following this subject for a while.**
I'm wondering whether you are the only blogger left standing on this matter.
**We haven't touched yet Islamic banking.**
hmmm...without islamic currency (DD), islamic banking is still pure numbering techniques
**Common on answer me ... "Tell me something I don't already know" - Quoted from character Gordon Gecko in the movie Wall Street.**
the questions and answers are already within you...
and thank you for voicing it out
If you are going on line by line, it is a waste of time to continue this exchange.
I moving on ...
You could go to Outsyed The Box. He doesn't believe in it at all.
Go argue with him.
i guess ABITW and A Voice is the same person since my comments are simultaneously commented upon by A Voice in ABITW blog.
yes do move on.
anyway the dinars cannot be set on motion through debates as much as it was stopped not through debates nearly 100 years ago.
just do it Umar.
If anybody is interested on dinar usage in Jakarta, try this links:
1)holland tv coverage on on practice of dinar dirham (dd)Kg Cilincing, Jakarta
2) this for TV news in Indonesia about the DD in Kg Cilincing
I like Dinar.and its revaluation of currency.
Pls look into this article...even mat salleh believe in the gold money and that paper money is a lie....
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